Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/23/1999 01:45 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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SJR 8 - FAIR AND ACCURATE CENSUS
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the first order of business is SJR 8,
Relating to the 2000 decennial United States census and to the
development of redistricting data for use by the state in
legislative redistricting.
Number 0060
MARK HODGINS, Legislative Assistant to Senator Jerry Ward, Alaska
State Legislature, came before the committee to present the sponsor
statement. This resolution urges Congress and the Bureau of the
Census to conduct the 2000 decennial census consistent with the
ruling of Department of Commerce v. United States House and the
Constitution of the United States. The bureau plans on using
random sampling techniques, or other statistical methods, instead
of an actual enumeration. A random sampling technique or other
statistical method could raise serious issues of vote dilution and
violate "one-person, one-vote" legal protections. An analogy is
flying over an area to count moose then extrapolating that number
to the entire state. An even better analogy is counting a few fish
then deciding that the Kenai River is over or under escapement and
curtailing the various industries. He noted that a random sampling
technique or other statistical method could create problems with
the way the state House and Senate lines are drawn. Therefore, it
is very important that there is an accurate count.
Number 0197
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Hodgins whether there is any
legislation pending before Congress for this resolution to be used
for testimony and/or backup.
MR. HODGINS replied Congress has some sway with the Bureau of the
Census. The resolution simply asks that P.L. 94-171 data be used
only if it is done with an actual nose count. He doesn't believe
that there is any legislation going through Congress that would
impact this resolution.
Number 0273
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Hodgins whether there is any indication
that the Bureau of the Census plans on not being consistent with
the ruling.
MR. HODGINS replied the Bureau of the Census depends largely on the
administration of each state in the formulation of what is called
a "book" - the vehicle to decide how each state is to be counted.
Senator Ward feels that the best count is an actual nose count.
There is always a small amount of statistical count within the
census because everybody can't be counted, and every state, borough
or municipality has the ability to challenge the count for their
area. In researching this issue, the problem is that the military
is counted in their home state, and the homeless and other
itinerants are assigned a place. This causes quite a bit of
problem and litigation throughout the state.
Number 0406
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, according to his understanding, that
currently the number the state gets from the Bureau of the Census
in determining representation to the U.S. House of Representatives
will be an enumeration. He asked Mr. Hodgins whether he has heard
of anything indicating that will not be the case.
MR. HODGINS replied the emphasis of the resolution is to make sure
that the Bureau of the Census uses the enumeration count rather
than a statistical sampling. He reiterated there are times when
the bureau uses both because it cannot count everybody. Senator
Ward wants to make sure that is held to a minimum.
Number 0496
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Hodgins whether he has heard of
anything indicating that the bureau is going to deviate and give a
statistical count instead of an actual head count. According to
his understanding, in determining the number of representatives for
each state, the actual count will be used, and what the states use
is up to each state.
MR. HODGINS replied no. He has not heard otherwise.
Number 0569
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Mr. Hodgins to explain the intent of
the following "whereas" clause:
"WHEREAS the Alaska State Legislature believes that a
person, once enumerated, should never be omitted from
census figures provided to states for purposes of
redistricting; and"
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA wondered about a person who dies or moves.
Number 0597
MR. HODGINS replied he's not sure whether the definition of a
person is "alive" in that "whereas" clause. He is assuming that
once a person passes on that person would no longer be a person.
The idea for this clause is that once a person is counted that
person cannot be used for a statistical count for drawing up a
district line within the state.
Number 0642
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA stated, maybe, it should be worded, "should
never be part of a sample..." It looks like a person could never
move to another state.
Number 0657
MR. HODGINS said the census is a snapshot of where people are at a
given time. If a person is counted in one place, that person
cannot be counted in another place, which is what the "whereas"
clause is referring to.
Number 0673
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said her experience is that, if a person dies
or moves when the count is made, the count stays part of the
enumeration process.
Number 0714
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI said she agrees that the language is less
than clear and suggested looking at it. She thinks the language,
"once enumerated we don't go the statistical route," says what
everybody is in agreement on.
Number 0751
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she is not sure that the "whereas" clause
is needed at all.
Number 0765
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN suggested the following language:
"once enumerated, should not be submitted to statistical
variation"
Number 0776
MR. HODGINS stated the purpose of the "whereas" clause is, drawing
on an analogy, that once an application is submitted for a
permanent fund dividend and the person applying dies, it still goes
toward that person's estate. However, this is an actual count on
a given day of the population of the United States, which is how
the lines are drawn. If somebody dies or is born the next day,
that somebody is not counted and cannot be removed from the count.
The idea is to get a static figure to be used for district lines
and federal funding. He thinks it should stay within the body of
the resolution.
Number 0879
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she understands the argument, but it
doesn't say what it's intended to say. In accordance with her
understanding of the census process, it doesn't mean if a person
dies or moves away. It means that once a person is counted in an
enumeration that person shouldn't be counted in any other
calculation, which is being said in several other ways in the
resolution. She's not sure whether it needs to be said again.
Number 0935
MR. HODGINS said the gist of the "whereas" clause is saying, once
the count has been made, the figures should not be changed.
Number 0950
CHAIRMAN KOTT questioned Mr. Hodgins as to whether that is not how
it is done currently.
MR. HODGINS replied it is a long and involved process. He noted
that municipalities and communities can protest the count to adjust
their numbers. It is to a city's advantage, in general, to have as
many of its citizens counted as accurately as possible because of
funding.
Number 0987
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN offered [as an amendment] to strike the
language - "never be omitted from census figures provided to
states" - and insert the language - "not be involved in a
statistical sampling procedure" - on page 2, line 20 [Amendment 1].
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA wondered whether it would be better to say
"sampling or other statistical methodologies" in order to be
consistent with other language in the resolution. In addition,
once the word "never" is used...
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN interjected and stated that his amendment
would take the word "never" out.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN further stated that Representative Kerttula
brings up an interesting point and suggested the following
language:
"should not be involved in sampling or other statistical
methodologies"
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES questioned whether it should say "involved" or
"counted."
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER replied it should say counted.
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that Representative James' question is a
friendly amendment to Representative Green's suggestion.
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether there is any objection to the
amendment, as amended. There being none, it was so adopted.
Number 1138
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Hodgins whether there was any indication
from the Senate of including a copy of the resolution to the head
of the Bureau of the Census [a conceptual amendment].
MR. HODGINS replied he thinks that would be an appropriate
amendment.
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that since this resolution directs attention to
the bureau, they ought to have it firsthand. He further noted that
the correct title will be obtained.
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether there is any objection to the
conceptual amendment. There being none, it was so adopted.
Number 1236
CHAIRMAN KOTT closed the meeting to public testimony.
Number 1240
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a motion to move SJR 8, as amended, from
the committee with individual recommendations and the attached
fiscal note(s). There being no objection, HCS SJR 8(JUD) was so
moved from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.
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